Comments for Is double-handed force increased if mastered in single-handed form?

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Oct 28, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		Combine aikido fused with kendo techniques
by: Iain S. Jarvis

Changing a little bit of what I said in this question.

Let?s say that I had a hand as the power hand and the other hand trained and skilled in aikido  which would be my skilled hand, and I can control both. If I switch my blade from the power (kendo techniques) hand to the control hand (aikido techniques), would that be a good combination?

 I know samurai were trained in a lot of weaponry. They also were masters in hand to hand combat and weapon to weapon.

What would he do if he wasn?t good with his hands but only with his weapon and his enemy removed or the holder lost his sword?

He wouldn't know what to do then he would be either captured or killed in battle.

You could use your sword like a hand and remove the enemy's sword away from his hand. Of Course instead of a katana would need something light and a little bit shorter like a wakizashi or shiai wakizash. You probably should train aikido and kendo.

Kendo-Guide.Com: Since this is a kendo website so I would like to comment from the kendo perspectives.

What you described here never happens in kendo unless you are training as a kendo specialist in Japan such as the police force or physical education teacher.

Kendo chose to be safer and more available to everyone but keep the concept of katana thus we call it ken (sword) do (way).

If you want to learn techniques in a battle field, kendo is not the right choice. It does not tell you anything useful in battle in terms of techniques.

It is a way to train ourselves physically and mentally by constantly challenging our own physical and mental limitation, just like any other budo.

I think you will find kory? more interesting.

One more thing that if samurai was not good at fighting (with or without a weapon), there was only one thing waiting for him/her. Death.

Having said that, there are weapons to catch a sword and snatch it out of hands such as jitte (jutte) and Hozoin jumonji-yari.


Oct 05, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		Force loses to skill
by: aaron

I made one comment before but am not confident that it went where I intended it to.  I am sorry if this is double.  I am also thankful for this site.  It is of great help.  So, the comment.

I have seen too often force loses to skill.  Gain the skill so that force may be applied if desired.


Kendo-Guide.Com:  Sorry Aaron. I was a bit busy so I could not show your comment sooner. I deleted the parts that duplicated your previous comment.

Thank you for your compliment on this site. Since I am running this alone, it takes some time to get things done.

Now one thing I just wanted to say is, for judo people's defence, it was not a part of kendo. Bushi (Japanese warrior, often called samurai) had to study most of the battle techniques, not only swords, but wrestling, spears, bow and arrow and so on.

Your comment, "Force loses to skill", is what judo wants to do.

It says, "ju yoku go wo seisu". Direct translation of this is "Softness overpower the strength". That is judo is the way of softness.

Of course, they have their professions and preferences.

Thank you again for your contribution!
Oct 04, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		power?
by: aaron

The question brings a number of things to mind. 

1.  Will your power, meaning actual force, increase if you train both hands separately.  I think yes.

2.  Would using both hands be more powerful or in other words more effective?  Well, maybe.  Judo, as I understand it, used to be part of kendo.  The question was asked allot in the early to mid 1900's. 
It is the classic boxer vs. wrestler question.  Who will win?  The answer was found to be that as long as the boxer stays away from the wrestler he will win, but if the boxer lets the wrestler too close the wrestler will win. 

I would imagine that the same is true for kendo.  Get too close for too long and you risk your sword match turning into a judo match. 

3.  Focusing on power in swordsmanship is not what you want to do.  Swordsmanship needs control. 

If the control is there the power can be exercised at will, but if all you have is power, you too often will over commit, open yourself up to a variety of actions and so will always loose to a more controlled / skilled person. 

But, let us suppose you have power and skill and you rely on that combination of controlled speed.  I would say that you still loose.  

Line up the 20 to 50 people you will fight on the battlefield or in competition and if you put all your energy into the first few you will have nothing left for those who remain.  Keep your movements controlled, economical and powerful if needed so your energy lasts longer.

 For me the best touches I get (the most fun) are when my opponent says that he saw it coming a mile away and there was nothing he could do about it. 

Lastly, you do not need to be powerful in swordsmanship to win.  Using a club you need to hit hard to do damage but with a properly sharpened sword, a small tap does a good deal of damage. 

All I need to do is crack the skull open 1/2 an inch and the contest is over.  I do not need to divide you in half. 

In battlefield and in kendo matches a firm rap on the head or kote, 3 inches in the throat or a sufficient slice to the belly and the contest is over.

So to summarize:  1.  yes, two hands will increase the power.  2.  do not let your sword match turn into something other than a sword match.  3.  You do not want power in a sword match you want control and energy preservation and use your sword like a sword not like a club.
Kendo-Guide.Com: Thank you for the comment. I won?t say anything else due to the limitation of the words we can write per comment.
Sep 30, 2009
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starstarstarstarstar 		Cannot defend with a bare hand
by: Matt


Throwing aside the rules of kendo shiai and thinking back to just using a sword in combat; the whole point is to extend your reach.

You will not be able to defend yourself against someone with a sword with a bare hand. This is something you would only see in choreographed movies or anime.
By the time a person with a sword closed the distance to the point you could reach them with your hand, you would already be dead.

There are plenty of kendo d?j?s in Texas and I suggest you get yourself to one if you are actually interested in learning kendo.

Kendo-Guide.Com: I have no idea what I would do in a battle field and I would not know what would be possible and what would not.  

But there are many techniques with bare hands against a sword man (including kodachi techniques) so probably it would be possible to go against a sword man without a sword.

"Possible or not possible"is and will be unknown because we do not fight in a battle field anymore.

Having said that, I agree with Matt about joining a d?j? near your city. Without knowing what kendo can do, we do not know its potential.
Sep 25, 2009
Rating
starstarstarstarstar 		Power hand vs control hand
by: Christoph

If I understand your question correctly, you mean to say that by training in using your shinai singlehandedly and on top of that train your other hand as well in some other manner, that if you were to use a shinai with both hands, would your power increase?

I believe the answer is that in kendo you use your left hand as power hand, i.e. the strength behind the strike comes from the left hand. The right hand is used to exert control. You steer (for lack of a better word) with it, but don't use it to add power to your strike.

If you were to use a real katana, adding power to the right hand would effectively increase the power of your strike in the sense that you pull the sharpest part of the blade through.

I hope this makes sense, even if just a little...

Kendo-Guide.Com: Thank you for your comment. In real battle fields, which I have never been, I imagine that a single handed fighting style could be effective from time to time, such as running around and grabbing a weapon of one of the enemies.

Since it is illegal in kendo shiai (match) to throw, punch, kick and grab our opponent?s shinai, I do not think the using one hand for another technique is very useful in kendo. But if you want to try how things work and adapt your findings to make your kendo better, I think it is worth trying.

Or you can try nito. It makes more sense if you want to use both hands. However, you need someone to supervise you.

Hope this helps.
Sep 23, 2009
Rating
star 		Empty your cup first, when you want more
by: Viany Cin Hiong


I like to leave some comment here for your statement or question (that confuses Imafuji Sensei)

Oh! For your info I am 2nd Dan in Kendo, started aikido in 1996, I also have trained TSKSR kenjutsu since 2006, and BJJ since 2005 (the last one is not very active). So I'll comment based on what I've experienced in my personal training only.

From what I have experienced that doing one Martial Art (MA) in the entry and middle level is a different thing and possibly won't help each or another.

But when you come in the high rank level of one MA, it's a different story, which will help you understand more easily another new MA that you train in. But it still won't make you achieve the high rank in a short time.

So what I am trying to say here is that if you want to double the power as in the real meaning of pure power, I am sure it will. But if what you mean is to shift the natural power of the kendo techniques to other martial arts, I don't think it will work.


So may be the words of Bruce Lee can be use here. He said, "You can't pour the tea to a cup that is already full. To fill the cup with new tea is to empty the cup first". This maybe is not the exact word but the meaning is still the same.

To learn a new MA you should empty your Body and Soul from what you've learned, so you could fill it with the new idea and concept of the new MA that you learn. And at the end, they all lead us to the core of the martial arts called..... ( please feel free to fill the blank, because I haven't gotten there yet hahahha)

Hope this lousy comment could help a bit.

Kendo-Guide.Com: Thank you for sharing your experience. I like the quote from Bruce Lee. I googled it. I found an article of a story when Bruce Lee said that. Actually, Bruce Lee also quoted what he said from a story between a Japanese zen master and a university professor.

It goes like this?

It was obvious to the master from the start of the conversation that the professor was not so much interested in learning about Zen as he was in impressing the master with his own opinions and knowledge. As the Zen teacher spoke, the proud man would frequently interrupt him with remarks like "Oh, yes we have that, too" and so on.

Finally, the Zen teacher stopped talking and began to serve tea to the learned man. He poured until the cup was full... and then kept pouring until it overflowed.

"Enough!" the professor once more interrupted. "The cup is overfull, no more will go in!"

"Indeed, I see," answered the Zen teacher. "Like this cup, you are full of your own opinions and speculations. If you do not first empty your cup, how can you taste my cup of tea?"

This article is quoted from "Is Your Cup Empty Or Full? Why Bruce Lee Emptied His Cup On A Regular Basis" Author: Paul A. Walker


Thank you for letting us about the quote!
Sep 23, 2009
Rating
starstarstar 		Hansoku
by: Anonymous

Probably your defending will cause hansoku because it looks like being bare handed and also your kamae will be weak. It is very hard to handle your sword if your opponent aims to drop your sword from your hand.

Kendo-Guide.Com: Thank you for your comment. In shiai (match), it is hansoku (illegal) to use our hands to protect ourselves and besides we cannot throw. It is a very good point. Thanks for brining that up.

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