What about Tameshigiri?

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What about Tameshigiri?

by Robert
(Melbourne)

Zenhihon Kendo Renmei (ZNKR) has Kendo (fencing) Seitei Iai (drawing the sword) even Jodo (short staff) but no Tameshi-giri (test cutting). Is there an explanation as to why? This would then cover all areas of basic swordsmanship.

I ask as I have just read Naked Blade by Toshishiro Obata dealing with Toyama ryu (military officer sword training), The Happo giri eight basic cuts (angles) and kata form 8 Happon me (test cutting / execution technique). This has now satisfied me as to all the other basic cuts (angles) not found in Kendo or Iai.

Kendo-Guide.Com: Seitei Iai and jōdo forms consist of forms from different kenjutsu schools. This is to integrate different schools with different styles. These forms are used for grading (promotion test) so that judges from different kenjutsu schools can test examinees.

I believe that tameshi-giri is practiced in each kenjutsu school. I used to practice hōki-ryū but unfortunately I just did tameshi-giri one time. I did not have a chance to train in Japan many times so I am not familiar with what kenjutsu schools do in their own dōjō.

However, I know theｙ have their own training methods (including tameshi-giri) and I am sure that they have their own grading system (traditional way).

I do not know about Mr. Obata or his writings well. I just know he studied many different kinds of martial arts and established his own style. So I cannot really comment on what you said here .

However, I am sure that old kenjutsu schools have cuts that seitei iai does not have. Remember, seitei iai consists of many different kinds of styles and also it was initially designed for kendoists (this was to popularize iaido among kendoists).

I personally think it is a good idea to learn iaido and kendo. And also try to do tameshi-giri. That really gives an idea of what really a sword does and also difficult it is to use a sword.

If you are suggesting that All Japan Kendo Federation should promote kendoists to learn iaido, jōdo and tameshi-giri, I agree with that.

I also think that as long as we do kendo in the right manner, we are learning how to use a really sword as well. This is my personal view, I must emphasise.

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What about Tameshigiri?

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Nov 09, 2009
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Setei iai and koryu
by: Matt

In my limited understanding while the IKF thru the ZNKR issues menjo for seitei iai, most people study seitei as part of their own ryu curriculum (examples such as muso jikiden eishi ryu or muso shinden ryu).

I don?t know of many people that just study seitei iai. Tameshi-giri is not an art unto itself (in my humble opinion) despite Obata's beliefs. As its name implies it is test cutting, or testing to prove your technique is correct, and goes and a hand with either iai or koryu kata.

I also believe that to test for 7-dan and 8-dan under the ZNKR you have to demonstrate techniques from your ryu beyond seitei so the expectation is that you are learning it as part of a larger ryu.

Kendo-Guide.Com: You are right, Matt. Even though Seitei iai was made for kendoists, it is now used for iai people as compulsory katas (see my first post).

You are also right about the meaning of tameshi-giri.

Through my quick research, in 6-dan and 7-dan exams, examinees must perform 3 katas from seitei iai and 2 katas from koryu (must use a real sword). For 8-dan, examinees must perform 7 katas from seitei iai for the first practical exam and those who passed the first exam must perform 7 koryu katas.

It looks like they have time limit. They have to perform katas within certain minutes. This is very interesting.

Tameshi-giri (cutting test) must be done in their own schools because it is, as Matt mentioned, a part of training.

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Nov 09, 2009
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Submitted by: Matt

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In my limited understanding while the IKF thru the ZNKR issues menjo for seitei iai, most people study seitei as part of their own ryu curriculum (examples such as muso jikiden eishi ryu or muso shinden ryu). I don?t know of many people that just study seitei iai. Tameshi-giri is not an art unto itself (in my humble opinion) despite Obata's beliefs. As its name implies it is test cutting, or testing to prove your technique is correct, and goes and a hand with either iai or koryu kata. I also believe that to test for 7-dan and 8-dan under the ZNKR you have to demonstrate techniques from your ryu beyond seitei so the expectation is that you are learning it as part of a larger ryu. Kendo-Guide.Com: You are right, Matt. Even though Seitei iai was made for kendoists, it is now used for iai people as compulsory katas (see my first post). You are also right about the meaning of tameshi-giri. Through my quick research, in <a href="http://www.kendo.or.jp/event/judgment/200911_iaido6.7-tokyo.html">6-dan and 7-dan exams</a>, examinees must perform 3 katas from seitei iai and 2 katas from koryu (must use a real sword). For <a href="http://www.kendo.or.jp/event/judgment/200905_iaido8-kyoto.html">8-dan</a>, examinees must perform 7 katas from seitei iai for the first practical exam and those who passed the first exam must perform 7 koryu katas. It looks like they have time limit. They have to perform katas within certain minutes. This is very interesting. Tameshi-giri (cutting test) must be done in their own schools because it is, as Matt mentioned, a part of training.

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What about Tameshigiri?

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